My First Day on the Forum

<rant style="version:2">I call it the "American Idol Syndrome". There is at
least couple of generations of people who were raised to believe, "You can
be anything you want if you just put your mind to it". Nonsense. I'm 5'8"
with no apparent athletic skills. I never believed for a moment I could be a
starting NBA center. Never! Look at the hundreds who line up to audition for
American Idol and have not a drop of talent. Don't you just know they have
family and friends who encourage them and rave about how talented they are?
Haven't you ever visited a site featured on Web Pages That Suck only to see
numerous award graphics on the site? It's sad and I feel sorry for those
misdirected people who can only experience disappointment and dismay when
reality hits them in the face. You know it has to extend to areas like web
design. I don't begrudge those who are clearly interested in learning. I
begrudge those who think they have nothing to learn and take any criticism
as a personal attack. I am completely baffled by those who dive into the
deep end of the pool without so much as dipping in a toe to test the water.
I just don't get it.

I see it routinely and not just here. Often a site owner will ask me to
modify or makeover their site. After reviewing the actual structure I often
have to tell them that adding to the site is tantamount to adding a second
floor to a mobile home. It can probably be done but it when completed they
will have nothing of value.

Have you ever tried to modify a Net Objects Fusion site with tables nested 7
deep? Yet, until the most recent version of NOF was released their website
clearly said their product was for designers who wanted to seem to be web
design professionals. Shouldn't that have been a red flag for a serious
would-be designer?

That is why this bothers me. As Murray suggests, I too learn a lot from
participating here. Some from what I read and some from what I write as I
often have to figure out the answer and that forces me to research and
learn. The only change I've made is to be more circumspect in my initial
post. Until the OP declares a willingness to learn and have their
preconceived notions challenged I won't say too much. When I tell someone
they need to learn and understand HTML/CSS I don't bother giving them links
to resources until they say they are willing to learn.
</rant>
--

Walt


"courtney (n h c)" <webmaster@newhomeconnection.com> wrote in message
news:g93q23$lhg$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Walt, i completely agree with you. i just don't understand how people end
> up here without even looking at the Help file BUILT IN to Dreamweaver
> first. it's like they don't even know it's there. and then they somehow
> find their way here, and then don't bother to search for their problem
> before posting. i don't know if they're ignorant or lazy. or both. i have
> a difficult time not snapping at all the people who post questions that
> can easily be found by opening the Help file or conducting a simple search
> here because it's a question that's been asked and answered hundreds of
> times already. i don't want to be rude, but it really does get old.
>
> it drives me crazy that so many people simply will not make an effort to
> find things out on their own and actually use their own brain. and it's
> not just here. it's everywhere!
>
> Walt F. Schaefer wrote:
>> <rant>It's clear to me most newbies here (OP may or may not be included)
>> jump into web design something like someone who sees people swimming,
>> thinks it looks like fun, so they jump off the end of a long pier knowing
>> nothing about swimming, floating, rip currents, waves, etc. For these
>> newbies apparently the thought of reading the online Help and its many
>> tutorials or better yet following the obvious links to the Adobe website
>> with additional tuts, etc. never crosses their mind. Even better, when
>> someone points out the folly in their approach they become offensive. I'm
>> seeing more and more of them replying indignantly, "Don't lecture me,
>> just answer my question". Responses of that nature seem to be trending
>> upward I'm sorry to say. Again, not attributing that to the OP but
>> clearly she has been merrily building pages from templates without
>> bothering to learn what a Template is. I just don't get it.
>> </rant>
>>
>> ;-)
>>

again, i agree completely!

i am also baffled at people's unwillingness to figure stuff out on their
own. they just want to be given the answers. i deal with it at my job a
lot (i'm the webmaster but also the IT person by default). people around
here act like i'm some kind of genius, when all i do is--are you ready
for this?--read! it's not like all this knowledge just magically appears
in my brain. i had to learn it somewhere. if i don't already know how to
solve a problem, i'll look it up. and if i don't find the answer, i'll
look it up somewhere else. actually asking someone, contacting support,
or posting to a forum is usually my last resort (unless it's an
emergency, and i hate it when that happens). i feel much more fulfilled
when i figure something out on my own. it's a matter of pride with me.

i learn a lot here too. i learn new things, i learn things i thought i
knew were wrong. i come here every day to see if i can help someone or
learn something i might not have known before. i rarely even post my own
problems (generally because when i have a problem i search for the
solution before posting!). i enjoy helping people who do want to learn
and actually are stuck on something, rather than just not bothering to
try fixing it themselves. i also figure i can help people with basic
problems, leaving the real smarties free to help with the more
complicated stuff. ;)

i can't tell you how much better i am at this stuff since i started
coming to this forum. yes, my willingness and ability to learn new
things and change how i do things when i discover there's a better way
helps a lot, but so do all of you! i love you guys.

Walt F. Schaefer wrote:
> <rant style="version:2">I call it the "American Idol Syndrome". There is at
> least couple of generations of people who were raised to believe, "You can
> be anything you want if you just put your mind to it". Nonsense. I'm 5'8"
> with no apparent athletic skills. I never believed for a moment I could be a
> starting NBA center. Never! Look at the hundreds who line up to audition for
> American Idol and have not a drop of talent. Don't you just know they have
> family and friends who encourage them and rave about how talented they are?
> Haven't you ever visited a site featured on Web Pages That Suck only to see
> numerous award graphics on the site? It's sad and I feel sorry for those
> misdirected people who can only experience disappointment and dismay when
> reality hits them in the face. You know it has to extend to areas like web
> design. I don't begrudge those who are clearly interested in learning. I
> begrudge those who think they have nothing to learn and take any criticism
> as a personal attack. I am completely baffled by those who dive into the
> deep end of the pool without so much as dipping in a toe to test the water.
> I just don't get it.
>
> I see it routinely and not just here. Often a site owner will ask me to
> modify or makeover their site. After reviewing the actual structure I often
> have to tell them that adding to the site is tantamount to adding a second
> floor to a mobile home. It can probably be done but it when completed they
> will have nothing of value.
>
> Have you ever tried to modify a Net Objects Fusion site with tables nested 7
> deep? Yet, until the most recent version of NOF was released their website
> clearly said their product was for designers who wanted to seem to be web
> design professionals. Shouldn't that have been a red flag for a serious
> would-be designer?
>
> That is why this bothers me. As Murray suggests, I too learn a lot from
> participating here. Some from what I read and some from what I write as I
> often have to figure out the answer and that forces me to research and
> learn. The only change I've made is to be more circumspect in my initial
> post. Until the OP declares a willingness to learn and have their
> preconceived notions challenged I won't say too much. When I tell someone
> they need to learn and understand HTML/CSS I don't bother giving them links
> to resources until they say they are willing to learn.
> </rant>

On 27 Aug 2008 in macromedia.dreamweaver, Walt F. Schaefer wrote:

> I'm 5'8" with no apparent athletic skills. I never believed for a
> moment I could be a starting NBA center.

Wait. Wait...

<sfx class="ring" />
<sfx class="ring" />
"Sid? You there, Sid? I've got it!"

<sound class="announcer">The Next <sound class="loud">Yao</sound> <sound
class="louder">Ming!</sound></sound>

<sfx class="crowdRoar" />

<gdr />

--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.net/
Email: http://makowiec.net/contact.php

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008, courtney (n h c) wrote

>it drives me crazy that so many people simply will not make an effort
>to find things out on their own and actually use their own brain. and
>it's not just here. it's everywhere!

Indeed, I've had the same problem with some regulars here.

--
Richard Mason
http://www.emdpi.com

On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:27:29 +0100, Dooza <doozadooza@gmail.com>
wrote:


>
>Being part of this forum helps me learn, hell, even Murray asks
>questions and learns new stuff from new people!
>


I have to do a double take when Murray does that :-))
--

~Malcolm~*...
~*

"Walt F. Schaefer" <walt@waltswebworx.com> wrote in message
news:g947bt$9go$1@forums.macromedia.com...

> <rant style="version:2">I call it the "American Idol Syndrome". There is
> at least couple of generations of people who were raised to believe, "You
> can be anything you want if you just put your mind to it".

I'm aware of and have thought about American Idol Syndrome a lot, but I
would emphasize a somewhat different aspect of it: the fact that a whole
generation now believes that all you have to do to succeed is win the right
contest.

I see this in young musicians, singers, dancers, rappers, etc. They don't
doubt for a moment that they are quite gifted. But it never occurs to them -
and nobody seems to be telling them - that they probably need years of study
and practice before they're ready for any kind of prime time. Most of these
young artists don't take lessons or even practice regularly - they just set
their sites on winning a contest. They literally see that as *THE* way to
achieve recognition for their work.


--
Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--

They say that a good teacher is someone who carries on their own learning
process publicly. :-)

--
Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--

"Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:g961fn$h4d$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Me too.
>
> --
> Murray --- ICQ 71997575
> Adobe Community Expert
> (If you *MUST* email me, don't LAUGH when you do so!)
> ==================
> http://www.projectseven.com/go - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> http://www.dwfaq.com - DW FAQs, Tutorials & Resources
> ==================
>
>
> "Malcolm _" <malcom@mon.org> wrote in message
> news:ikacb49ddg5pmbchsln0hmgcanesr0kjn3@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:27:29 +0100, Dooza <doozadooza@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Being part of this forum helps me learn, hell, even Murray asks
>>>questions and learns new stuff from new people!
>>>
>>
>>
>> I have to do a double take when Murray does that :-))
>> --
>>
>> ~Malcolm~*...
>> ~*
>

"Murray *ACE*" <forums@HAHAgreat-web-sights.com> wrote in message
news:g96jir$6of$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> That's an excellent quote.
>
> Here's another one that I like alot:
>
> Others view us by the power of our example, not the example of our power.
> 8)

LOL.. I know where you got that - about 10:42 EST last night, broadcast from
Denver, CO!

Yes we damn well can, and are about to! :-)

--
Patty Ayers | www.WebDevBiz.com
Free Articles on the Business of Web Development
Web Design Contract, Estimate Request Form, Estimate Worksheet
--