Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be killed
with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has never been so
in my case: neither the task manager nor any kill-process-tool I know of
has ever been able to stop firefox.exe from working in the underground
as a sort of mole. This has always been so under XP as well as Vista.
What am I doing wrong?

rebro wrote:
> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be killed
> with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has never been so
> in my case: neither the task manager nor any kill-process-tool I know of
> has ever been able to stop firefox.exe from working in the underground
> as a sort of mole. This has always been so under XP as well as Vista.
> What am I doing wrong?

Open a dosbox (start, run, CMD)
Type 'taskkill.exe /im firefox.exe'
Press enter.

Does Firefox go ?

Try safe mode to ensure it's not a screwy addon causing the problem.

Yeebok Shu'in schrieb:
> rebro wrote:
>> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be killed
>> with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has never been
>> so in my case: neither the task manager nor any kill-process-tool I
>> know of has ever been able to stop firefox.exe from working in the
>> underground as a sort of mole. This has always been so under XP as
>> well as Vista.
>> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Open a dosbox (start, run, CMD)
> Type 'taskkill.exe /im firefox.exe'
> Press enter.
>
> Does Firefox go ?
>
> Try safe mode to ensure it's not a screwy addon causing the problem.

Thanks for your answer. But the method you propose doesn`t work either.
It`s just the usual situation again which necessarily ends up in a
tedious restart of the pc.

* rebro wrote, On 7/24/2008 02:25:
> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be killed
> with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has never been so
> in my case: neither the task manager nor any kill-process-tool I know of
> has ever been able to stop firefox.exe from working in the underground
> as a sort of mole. This has always been so under XP as well as Vista.
> What am I doing wrong?

How are you closing FX with the X at the upper right? That's won't
necessarily do the job. Instead go to File/Exit. Or if needed there is
a small extension which will allow you to put that red exit button
immediately below the X.
Miles

Miles schrieb:
> * rebro wrote, On 7/24/2008 02:25:
>> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be killed
>> with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has never been
>> so in my case: neither the task manager nor any kill-process-tool I
>> know of has ever been able to stop firefox.exe from working in the
>> underground as a sort of mole. This has always been so under XP as
>> well as Vista.
>> What am I doing wrong?
>
> How are you closing FX with the X at the upper right? That's won't
> necessarily do the job. Instead go to File/Exit. Or if needed there is
> a small extension which will allow you to put that red exit button
> immediately below the X.
> Miles
Thanks.
It`s either File/Exit or the exit button extension which I use as a
rule. But this doesn`t prevent firefox.exe from getting stuck from time
to time. And in this particular situation I don`t see any chance of
killing the process apart from restarting the pc - in spite of the
frequent hints that firefox.exe as a process can be terminated by means
of the task manager. So I wonder if my OS (Vista Home Premium) is in a
very unique state of resisting this method of shutting down the process.

rebro wrote:
> Miles schrieb:
>> * rebro wrote, On 7/24/2008 02:25:
>>> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be killed
>>> with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has never been
>>> so in my case: neither the task manager nor any kill-process-tool I
>>> know of has ever been able to stop firefox.exe from working in the
>>> underground as a sort of mole. This has always been so under XP as
>>> well as Vista.
>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> How are you closing FX with the X at the upper right? That's won't
>> necessarily do the job. Instead go to File/Exit. Or if needed there
>> is a small extension which will allow you to put that red exit button
>> immediately below the X.
>> Miles
> Thanks.
> It`s either File/Exit or the exit button extension which I use as a
> rule. But this doesn`t prevent firefox.exe from getting stuck from time
> to time. And in this particular situation I don`t see any chance of
> killing the process apart from restarting the pc - in spite of the
> frequent hints that firefox.exe as a process can be terminated by means
> of the task manager. So I wonder if my OS (Vista Home Premium) is in a
> very unique state of resisting this method of shutting down the process.


this doesn't happen nearly as often with FF2

sean.bean@wizard.net a écrit :
> rebro wrote:
>> Miles schrieb:
>>> * rebro wrote, On 7/24/2008 02:25:
>>>> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be
>>>> killed with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has
>>>> never been so in my case: neither the task manager nor any
>>>> kill-process-tool I know of has ever been able to stop firefox.exe
>>>> from working in the underground as a sort of mole. This has always
>>>> been so under XP as well as Vista.
>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>
>>> How are you closing FX with the X at the upper right? That's won't
>>> necessarily do the job. Instead go to File/Exit. Or if needed there
>>> is a small extension which will allow you to put that red exit button
>>> immediately below the X.
>>> Miles
>> Thanks.
>> It`s either File/Exit or the exit button extension which I use as a
>> rule. But this doesn`t prevent firefox.exe from getting stuck from
>> time to time. And in this particular situation I don`t see any chance
>> of killing the process apart from restarting the pc - in spite of the
>> frequent hints that firefox.exe as a process can be terminated by
>> means of the task manager. So I wonder if my OS (Vista Home Premium)
>> is in a very unique state of resisting this method of shutting down
>> the process.
>
>
> this doesn't happen nearly as often with FF2

Hi !
I have the same problem with FF3.01 and Win XP SP2 !
Never had the probleme with FF2 since a long time !
The X at upper right corner should (must) have the same functionalty as
the File/Exit .
The remaining of a running firefox process in memory is not itself a
problem but I get the annoying message-dialog telling that "Still
running... etc" so this is definitely a bug !

@NO keyboarded, On 7/31/2008 7:21 AM :
> sean.bean@wizard.net a écrit :
>> rebro wrote:
>>> Miles schrieb:
>>>> * rebro wrote, On 7/24/2008 02:25:
>>>>> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be
>>>>> killed with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has
>>>>> never been so in my case: neither the task manager nor any
>>>>> kill-process-tool I know of has ever been able to stop firefox.exe
>>>>> from working in the underground as a sort of mole. This has always
>>>>> been so under XP as well as Vista.
>>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>
>>>> How are you closing FX with the X at the upper right? That's won't
>>>> necessarily do the job. Instead go to File/Exit. Or if needed
>>>> there is a small extension which will allow you to put that red
>>>> exit button immediately below the X.
>>>> Miles
>>> Thanks.
>>> It`s either File/Exit or the exit button extension which I use as a
>>> rule. But this doesn`t prevent firefox.exe from getting stuck from
>>> time to time. And in this particular situation I don`t see any
>>> chance of killing the process apart from restarting the pc - in
>>> spite of the frequent hints that firefox.exe as a process can be
>>> terminated by means of the task manager. So I wonder if my OS (Vista
>>> Home Premium) is in a very unique state of resisting this method of
>>> shutting down the process.
>>
>>
>> this doesn't happen nearly as often with FF2
>
> Hi !
> I have the same problem with FF3.01 and Win XP SP2 !
> Never had the probleme with FF2 since a long time !
> The X at upper right corner should (must) have the same functionalty
> as the File/Exit .
> The remaining of a running firefox process in memory is not itself a
> problem but I get the annoying message-dialog telling that "Still
> running... etc" so this is definitely a bug !

Depending on OS the assumption that the X at top right has the same
functionality as File > Exit is false.

Wondows OS'e the X is an element of the window generated by the OS.
Clicking the X signals the running App to stop and the OS to close the
window. This deletes the visual presentation and forces the App to
shift from forground to background to finish its shutdown proccessing.

Useing the Moz App Exit command results in a different sequence for the
shutdown. The App begins it's shutdown and then signals the OS to close
the window.

So what happens that there are cases of a Moz App hanging as a hidden
process? We do know from some forensic work that when internet
communication was active at close, that the App has to close those
links. Clicking the X complicates things. It appears that Windows
assumes that several of the services it provides to Apps are no longer
needed and disconnects them from the App. So if one of those services
is TCP/IP stack services, the Moz App is left with trying to close links
but has lost he network services from the OS. Result is a Hung process
as noted in Task Manager.

--
Ron K.
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported Major Error used BSOD to msg the enemy!

@NO wrote:
> sean.bean@wizard.net a écrit :
>> rebro wrote:
>>> Miles schrieb:
>>>> * rebro wrote, On 7/24/2008 02:25:
>>>>> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be
>>>>> killed with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has
>>>>> never been so in my case: neither the task manager nor any
>>>>> kill-process-tool I know of has ever been able to stop firefox.exe
>>>>> from working in the underground as a sort of mole. This has always
>>>>> been so under XP as well as Vista.
>>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>
>>>> How are you closing FX with the X at the upper right? That's won't
>>>> necessarily do the job. Instead go to File/Exit. Or if needed
>>>> there is a small extension which will allow you to put that red exit
>>>> button immediately below the X.
>>>> Miles
>>> Thanks.
>>> It`s either File/Exit or the exit button extension which I use as a
>>> rule. But this doesn`t prevent firefox.exe from getting stuck from
>>> time to time. And in this particular situation I don`t see any chance
>>> of killing the process apart from restarting the pc - in spite of the
>>> frequent hints that firefox.exe as a process can be terminated by
>>> means of the task manager. So I wonder if my OS (Vista Home Premium)
>>> is in a very unique state of resisting this method of shutting down
>>> the process.
>>
>>
>> this doesn't happen nearly as often with FF2
>
> Hi !
> I have the same problem with FF3.01 and Win XP SP2 !
> Never had the probleme with FF2 since a long time !
> The X at upper right corner should (must) have the same functionalty as
> the File/Exit .
> The remaining of a running firefox process in memory is not itself a
> problem but I get the annoying message-dialog telling that "Still
> running... etc" so this is definitely a bug !

If the File/exit is not shutting down Firefox, then it is a failure of
the OS. Using the window close (X gadget) is NOT a reliable way to shut
down the program, and it shouldn't be, as this would terminate anything
like a download in progress, prematurely. The only time I have a
problem is with shutting down streaming video sites, some of which even
ignore attempts by my firewall to break the connection! I suspect this
is a problem with the TCIP stack handling in WinXP. That Vista users
are complaining about the same thing isn't comforting, as it indicates
MS doesn't have a handle on the problem.

Ron K. wrote:
> @NO keyboarded, On 7/31/2008 7:21 AM :
>> sean.bean@wizard.net a écrit :
>>> rebro wrote:
>>>> Miles schrieb:
>>>>> * rebro wrote, On 7/24/2008 02:25:
>>>>>> Constantly I find the hint that a "dormant" firefox.exe can be
>>>>>> killed with the help of the task manager. Unfortunately this has
>>>>>> never been so in my case: neither the task manager nor any
>>>>>> kill-process-tool I know of has ever been able to stop firefox.exe
>>>>>> from working in the underground as a sort of mole. This has always
>>>>>> been so under XP as well as Vista.
>>>>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>> How are you closing FX with the X at the upper right? That's won't
>>>>> necessarily do the job. Instead go to File/Exit. Or if needed
>>>>> there is a small extension which will allow you to put that red
>>>>> exit button immediately below the X.
>>>>> Miles
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> It`s either File/Exit or the exit button extension which I use as a
>>>> rule. But this doesn`t prevent firefox.exe from getting stuck from
>>>> time to time. And in this particular situation I don`t see any
>>>> chance of killing the process apart from restarting the pc - in
>>>> spite of the frequent hints that firefox.exe as a process can be
>>>> terminated by means of the task manager. So I wonder if my OS (Vista
>>>> Home Premium) is in a very unique state of resisting this method of
>>>> shutting down the process.
>>>
>>>
>>> this doesn't happen nearly as often with FF2
>>
>> Hi !
>> I have the same problem with FF3.01 and Win XP SP2 !
>> Never had the probleme with FF2 since a long time !
>> The X at upper right corner should (must) have the same functionalty
>> as the File/Exit .
>> The remaining of a running firefox process in memory is not itself a
>> problem but I get the annoying message-dialog telling that "Still
>> running... etc" so this is definitely a bug !
>
> Depending on OS the assumption that the X at top right has the same
> functionality as File > Exit is false.
>
> Wondows OS'e the X is an element of the window generated by the OS.
> Clicking the X signals the running App to stop and the OS to close the
> window. This deletes the visual presentation and forces the App to
> shift from forground to background to finish its shutdown proccessing.
>
> Useing the Moz App Exit command results in a different sequence for the
> shutdown. The App begins it's shutdown and then signals the OS to close
> the window.
>
> So what happens that there are cases of a Moz App hanging as a hidden
> process? We do know from some forensic work that when internet
> communication was active at close, that the App has to close those
> links. Clicking the X complicates things. It appears that Windows
> assumes that several of the services it provides to Apps are no longer
> needed and disconnects them from the App. So if one of those services
> is TCP/IP stack services, the Moz App is left with trying to close links
> but has lost he network services from the OS. Result is a Hung process
> as noted in Task Manager.
>
I suspect the mechanism is that Firefox sends the OS a request to
terminate the stream, and the OS sends the originating site the command,
and then waits for the stream to end, while FF waits for a return from
the OS that the stream has been ended, and the connection terminated.
If for any reason the stream doesn't terminate, say because the server
is busy, the OS doesn't resend the request, and everything waits,
patiently, for the server to send the response to a request that it will
never send. I base this scenario on the fact that even attempts to
terminate the stream from my firewall often fail, or take a long time,
or several attempts. I don't think it is fair to blame Firefox for this
one. Note that I, personally, have never had this problem if I
terminate Firefox from File/exit, but suppose it is possible, given the
proposed scenario.
If anyone wants a url to test this hypothesis, I have a server that
regularly exhibits this problem.