I am considering the purchase of a dedicated ebook reader, such as the
Kindle or the Iliad. I use Linux almost exclusively, and generally prefer
not to have to spend time defeating DRM systems just so I can move a file
from one device to another. I probably would not get the Sony product, as
Sony seems to be of the "Microsoft mindset": consumers are presumed
criminals, and should not be allowed to control their hardware in ways
that might be unfriendly to the "content providers."

So, what do y'all think? Does anyone have first, or even second, hand
experience with such devices? I use my Palm pilot for e-book reading
right now, but it has a small screen and relatively short battery life.
The Kindle seems to be gaining a dedicated following. Should I jump on
board?

--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock

On Jul 3, 2:15 pm, MarkA <t...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I am considering the purchase of a dedicated ebook reader, such as the
> Kindle or the Iliad. I use Linux almost exclusively, and generally prefer
> not to have to spend time defeating DRM systems just so I can move a file
> from one device to another. I probably would not get the Sony product, as
> Sony seems to be of the "Microsoft mindset": consumers are presumed
> criminals, and should not be allowed to control their hardware in ways
> that might be unfriendly to the "content providers."
>
> So, what do y'all think? Does anyone have first, or even second, hand
> experience with such devices? I use my Palm pilot for e-book reading
> right now, but it has a small screen and relatively short battery life.
> The Kindle seems to be gaining a dedicated following. Should I jump on
> board?

The ebooks I read are all on my desktop, purchased from Baen Books or
downloaded from the Baen Free Library (www.baen.com). They have a
variety of formats available however plain-old HTML seems to work the
best for my needs. As I'm getting older and am getting more vision
problems, I find that reading on something the size of a palm simply
is no longer possible for me.

By my count, there are currently 110 books available for free download
at the Baen Free Library site. "The Shadow of the Lion" and "An
Oblique Approach" (both the first books of series) I think would be a
good choice for many people on the AA list.


Rich Goranson
Amherst, NY, USA
aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1
EAC Department of Cruel and Unusual Choreography

MarkA wrote:
> I am considering the purchase of a dedicated ebook reader, such as the
> Kindle or the Iliad. I use Linux almost exclusively, and generally
> prefer not to have to spend time defeating DRM systems just so I can
> move a file from one device to another. I probably would not get the
> Sony product, as Sony seems to be of the "Microsoft mindset":
> consumers are presumed criminals, and should not be allowed to
> control their hardware in ways that might be unfriendly to the
> "content providers."
>
> So, what do y'all think? Does anyone have first, or even second, hand
> experience with such devices? I use my Palm pilot for e-book reading
> right now, but it has a small screen and relatively short battery
> life. The Kindle seems to be gaining a dedicated following. Should I
> jump on board?

Will the kindle handle http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page downloads?
That would be my first question.

As for DRM, it's going to get worse because when it comes to copyright most
people *are* criminals.
Just read what Mark Twain said about it.
The high school I worked at in 1981 bought their first copy machine about
that time. They did a careful analysis of their needs.
Within two months the usage per month was greater than the estimate
predicted for a year. It went up from thre.
Why buy a workbook for each student when you can buy one copy and run off
copies?

In article <pan.2008.07.03.18.15.31.617592@nowhere.com>,
MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
> I am considering the purchase of a dedicated ebook reader, such as the
> Kindle or the Iliad. I use Linux almost exclusively, and generally prefer
> not to have to spend time defeating DRM systems just so I can move a file
> from one device to another. I probably would not get the Sony product, as
....
> So, what do y'all think? Does anyone have first, or even second, hand
> experience with such devices? I use my Palm pilot for e-book reading
> right now, but it has a small screen and relatively short battery life.
> The Kindle seems to be gaining a dedicated following. Should I jump on
> board?

It depends on where you are going to get your ebooks. If you are going
to buy ebooks from Amazon, they will have DRM, and will only (unless you
defeat the DRM) work on Kindles that are on your Amazon account.

If you are going to obtain ebooks in text format (such as the large
number available at Project Gutenberg), or MOBI format (such as the
large number of DRM-free books at feedbooks.com), then the Kindle will
impose no restrictions on them.

To load documents obtained outside of Amazon onto a Kindle, you have
three choices.

1. Documents in text format and MOBI format (and maybe a couple
others...I forget) can be transferred by USB. The Kindle shows up as a
mass storage device when you plug it in, and you simply copy the files
over. It works fine on Linux.

2. Documents in several other formats can be converted for you by
Amazon. You mail the document to one of two magic email addresses that
Amazon provides for you. The first converts the documents and mails it
back as an attachment, which you can then download to your Kindle via
USB. This conversion is free. Documents sent to the second address are
converted, and downloaded wirelessly to your Kindle, but it costs your
$0.10 per document.

3. There is a free (as in beer) program available to create MOBI files.
It accepts many document formats. Unfortunately, it is only available
for Windows. I believe I've seen reports that it works under WINE, but
am not sure.

In many respects, the situation with Kindle and ebooks is a lot like the
situation with most portable music players--players all support non-DRM
files, and most also support one or more DRM formats. It's your choice
whether or not to obtain music from places that put DRM on it.

Here's a review I posted a while back in comp.os.linux.advocacy (the
Kindle runs Linux, so may be of interest to Linux advocates, which is
why it was posted to COLA):

================================================== ====================

**Introduction**

This is a short review of the [Amazon Kindle][1], an interesting eBook
reader. The Kindle runs Linux, so may be of some interest to readers of
COLA.

The Kindle may be used with a wide variety of free eBooks, non-free
eBooks that do not have DRM, and non-free eBooks that do have DRM. For
the convenience of those who wish to avoid all DRM, the first part of
this review will only consider the Kindle for use with non-DRM eBooks.

That will be followed by a look at the Kindle offerings that do have
DRM.

**Form Factor, Display, and Battery Life**

The Kindle's form factor was designed for reading. The screen is about
the size of a paperback book page. The device overall is about the size
and shape of a big, but not too thick, paperback book, or a small
hardback book. The weight is comparable to that of a book.

When you look at the pictures of the Kindle, it looks like it would be
awkward to use, especially because of the keyboard on the bottom. You
might think it would be hard to hold without accidently pressing those
keys, causing all kinds of havoc.

Fortunately, that is not a problem, because (1) those keys require a
fair amount of force to press, and (2) most of them don't do anything
during ordinary reading anyway, so it would not matter if you pressed
one.

The large "next page" button on the right side of the device causes
problems for some people, as it is very easy to hit. On the other hand,
that can be quite convenient. For example, if you were reading in bed,
tightly wrapped in a comfy warm blanket, holding the Kindle through the
blanket, it would be easy to tap "next page" with your blanket-ensconced
right hand.

Based on my rather small sample of two Kindle owners, plus what I've
read from others on forums, most quickly adapt, and find holding and
operating the device quite convenient and easy and comfortable.

The Kindle's screen is not an LCD. It is an [electrophoretic][2]
display. An electric field is used to rearrange charged pigments. What
does this mean to the user? It means that it is basically ink. It looks
and acts like ink on paper. You can read it in pretty much any light
where you'd be able to read a newspaper. Aesthetically, the "paper" is a
little darker and greyer than I'd choose if I were choosing paper, but I
got used to it easily.

This kind of display consumes almost no power when displaying an image.
It is only the act of changing the image (such as when you change pages)
that uses noticeable power. Accordingly, dedicated eBook readers usually
use very little power. The Kindle, if you have its wireless connection
turned off, should last a week for reading between charges.

This display technology is slower than LCD technology. It takes a couple
hundred milliseconds for it to draw a new screen. When you change pages,
the whole page goes black briefly as the "ink" rearranges for the new
page. A few people find this disconcerting, but most seem to quickly get
used to it.

**Content Without DRM**

You can load non-DRM content onto your Kindle in two (maybe three) ways.

First, you can hook the Kindle up to your computer via USB. The Kindle
shows up as a drive, and you copy files to the "Documents" directory.
(There are also directories for MP3 files and audiobooks, but I'm only
going to review the Kindle for eBooks, so no more shall be said about
those directories in this review).

You can load documents this way in these formats: plain text, Mobi, and
Amazon's own Kindle format.

Second, you can email your documents to a magic email address at Amazon.
Amazon converts the documents to Kindle format, and sends them
wirelessly to your Kindle. This costs you $0.10 per document. This
method handles Microsoft Word documents, HTML documents, and images in
JPEG, GIF, PNG, or BMP. It also handles PDF, but that is considered to
be experimental.

Amazon also provides a second magic email address you can use to convert
documents. Instead of being wirelessly sent to your Kindle (and costing
you $0.10), the converted documents are mailed back to you, in Amazon
Kindle format, for you to copy to your Kindle over USB.

Finally, the Kindle supports backing up documents to an SD memory card.
I would guess that you could use an SD memory card reader/writer on your
computer and load documents onto your SD card, but I have not tried
this.

There are a large number of free eBooks available in plain text. A good
source is [Project Gutenberg][3]. A large number of free books in Mobi
format are available from [Feedbooks][4]. There are many non-free books
without DRM available for purchase from [fictionwise][5] (they also have
content with DRM, so read carefully before purchasing a given eBook!).
These are just a few samples of where you can get eBook content without
DRM, offered for illustration, not as a definitive or exhaustive list.

**Kindle For Book Browsing**

Those who are not interested in purchasing eBooks that use DRM might
still find the Amazon Kindle store useful, to help when shopping for
regular books. The Kindle has a wireless connection to the store. This
connection is via Sprint's data network, and Amazon pays for it.

You can visit the store, either on your Kindle, or on your computer via
the web, and see if the books you are interested in are available for
Kindle. If they are, you can ask for a sample, and Amazon will send it
wirelessly to your Kindle. The sample typically seems to be around the
first 5% or so of the book. That will usually be enough to give you a
good idea of whether or not you want the book.

**Content With DRM**

Now let's consider the content that does have DRM. This falls into two
classes: periodicals and books. I'll consider these separately.

Before starting the discussion of periodicals, though, let us review the
big problems with buying content that has DRM.

1. You cannot easily loan it to friends. One of life's pleasures is
telling a friend "you'd love this book!" and handing them something
cool, and being right about them loving it.

2. You may lose some or all functionality if the company you bought
it from goes out of business, or changes their product line.

3. It may only work on some makes or models of device.

When considering content that has DRM, the fundamental question you have
to ask is whether or not there are factors that overcome, for you, the
negatives.

For example, I generally prefer music without DRM, and will purchase a
CD and rip it myself in preference to buying music with DRM.
Nevertheless, I have bought a small number of albums from the iTunes
store. Why?

Because they were obscure CDs I could not find from reasonable sources,
and I have ways to overcome the negatives. My friends all have iPods, so
I can easily share with them (#1). If Apple breaks iTunes, the old burn
and rip method overcomes the loss of functionality risk (#2) and the
device limits (#3). Thus, I have an out if the worst-case DRM scenario
comes to pass with iTunes, and exercising that out will just be a minor
nuisance, so I am willing to buy iTunes music if I can't easily find
those songs DRM-free.

For books, I am not too worried about #1 because my circle of friends
does not engage in a lot of book sharing. For example, one of us likes
non-fiction books by people who have done undercover work against
organized crime. The rest of us are not interested enough in that to
want to read those books. However, we are interested enough to listen to
his detailed report over lunch when he reads such a book, and we engage
in vigorous and interesting discussion. I'm also not worried about #3,
as it doesn't really make sense for books. I'll cover #2 in the
following discussion.

Now let us consider periodicals on the Kindle.

**Newspapers and Magazines**

Amazon offers a small number of magazines for Kindle, and they offer
several newspapers. These are sold on a monthly subscription basis. You
subscribe, and Amazon delivers your newspapers and magazines wirelessly.

The Kindle editions of periodicals offer most of the content of the
print versions. Newspapers won't have things like the comics, the
classifieds, crossword puzzles, or ads. They might also have fewer
photos, illustrations, and tables. Magazines are similar.

They offer 14-day free trials for periodicals, so you can check out the
ones that interest you before buying, to see if the Kindle edition
leaves out anything you need. I am currently in my 14-day trials of one
magazine (Newsweek) and three newspapers (The Seattle Times, The New
York Times, and The Wall Street Journal).

Prices are generally good for periodicals. Newsweek is $1.49/month, for
example. That's about 10% under the subscription price for the print
edition. I'm basing that on the new subscription price on Newsweek's
site.

For newspapers, The Seattle Times is $5.99/month, compared to
$17.33/month for the print edition.

The New York Times is $13.99/month, compared to almost $28/month for the
print edition.

The Wall Street Journal is $9.99/month. That one is higher than the
print edition, which is $6.58/month.

For periodicals, I have no problem with DRM. If I were to buy the print
editions, they'd end up in the recycling bin after a week or two anyway,
so as long as my copies of newspapers and magazines work for a week or
so after they are delivered, I'm satisfied.

**Books with DRM**

This brings us to books.

The Kindle store at Amazon currently has over 119000 books, in a good
range of categories. Prices are pretty good. Let's look at a few
examples to illustrate typical Kindle pricing.

_The God Delusion_, by Richard Dawkins is available for Kindle for
$8.61. The paperback edition is $9.57, and the hardcover is $17.82.
Depending on which edition you compare to, the Kindle edition saves you
either $0.96 or $9.21. Comparing to the paperback, the Kindle edition
saves 10%.

_The Omnivore's Dilemma_, by Michael Pollan, is $7.19 for Kindle, $9.60
paperback, and $17.79 hardback. The Kindle edition is $2.41 less than
the paperback. That is a 25% savings.

_The Mythical Man-Month_, by Fred Brooks (anniversary edition), is
$27.99 for Kindle, $32.70 for the print edition. $4.71 savings if you
buy the Kindle edition. That is a 15% savings.

_The Pragmatic Programmer_, by Andrew Hunt and David Thomas is $27.51
for Kindle, $38.00 for the print edition. That's a whopping $10.49
savings on the Kindle edition. That is a 28% savings.

_Swords and Deviltry_, by Fritz Leiber (volume 1 of the Fafhrd and the
Grey Mouser stories, the best sword and sorcery fantasy series ever).
$7.19 Kindle, $10.36 paperback. That's $3.17 savings for Kindle. That is
a 31% savings.

I mention price because price is a significant factor when it comes to
evaluating the DRM risk for books. To see why, let's consider regular
printed books for a moment.

My library of printed books is somewhere around 2000 volumes. Most of
these I've only read once. I have no reason to believe that it would be
any different with eBooks. Based on my experience with printed books, I
can safely say that well under 5% of the books I buy are books that will
end up being read more than once.

If it weren't for laziness, and a pack rat nature, I'd sell all those
read-once books to a used bookstore. My ideal procedure for dealing with
printed books would be to buy them, read them, and then, if I haven't
touched them again for a few months after reading them, sell them to a
used bookstore.

What this means is that I'm willing to have most of my books go away, if
I'm paid a small amount for each book (used bookstores do not pay very
much when they buy books).

Now, notice that Kindle books from Amazon all seem to be sold at a
substantial discount, compared to the paperback editions. That discount
is usually more than a used bookstore would pay for the paperback.

In the worst-case scenario, where Amazon shuts down the service, and my
books stop working when my Kindle eventually breaks, I end up in the
same position I would have been in had I bought the books in paperback
and sold them to a used bookstore after reading them (except not as good
financially, because the used bookstore pays less than the typical
Kindle book discount).

And that is the worst-case scenario. If Amazon does not shut down the
service, or otherwise change the terms significantly for the worse, I
essentially get the benefit of the paperback scenario, except I don't
actually get rid of the book.

My conclusion is that for most books I am interested in, it does make
sense to buy the Kindle edition. If Amazon does do something nasty at
some point, I may end up having to repurchase in another format a small
number of books, but the overall savings from the good Kindle book
prices makes that acceptable.

[1]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FI73MA/

[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...lectrophoretic

[3]: http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page

[4]: http://www.feedbooks.com/

[5]: http://www.fictionwise.com/






--
--Tim Smith

Although I don't use a Kindle, but occasionally have read books on my
Palm, thanks for the probably significant time and effort put into
this very useful summary!

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:10:29 -0700, Tim Smith
<reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

[A long but *very* useful post]

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:10:29 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:

> In article <pan.2008.07.03.18.15.31.617592@nowhere.com>,
> MarkA <toor@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> I am considering the purchase of a dedicated ebook reader, such as the
>> Kindle or the Iliad. I use Linux almost exclusively, and generally prefer
>> not to have to spend time defeating DRM systems just so I can move a file
>> from one device to another. I probably would not get the Sony product, as
> ...
>> So, what do y'all think? Does anyone have first, or even second, hand
>> experience with such devices? I use my Palm pilot for e-book reading
>> right now, but it has a small screen and relatively short battery life.
>> The Kindle seems to be gaining a dedicated following. Should I jump on
>> board?
>
> It depends on where you are going to get your ebooks. If you are going
> to buy ebooks from Amazon, they will have DRM, and will only (unless you
> defeat the DRM) work on Kindles that are on your Amazon account.
>
> If you are going to obtain ebooks in text format (such as the large
> number available at Project Gutenberg), or MOBI format (such as the
> large number of DRM-free books at feedbooks.com), then the Kindle will
> impose no restrictions on them.
>
> To load documents obtained outside of Amazon onto a Kindle, you have
> three choices.
>
> 1. Documents in text format and MOBI format (and maybe a couple
> others...I forget) can be transferred by USB. The Kindle shows up as a
> mass storage device when you plug it in, and you simply copy the files
> over. It works fine on Linux.
>
> 2. Documents in several other formats can be converted for you by
> Amazon. You mail the document to one of two magic email addresses that
> Amazon provides for you. The first converts the documents and mails it
> back as an attachment, which you can then download to your Kindle via
> USB. This conversion is free. Documents sent to the second address are
> converted, and downloaded wirelessly to your Kindle, but it costs your
> $0.10 per document.
>
> 3. There is a free (as in beer) program available to create MOBI files.
> It accepts many document formats. Unfortunately, it is only available
> for Windows. I believe I've seen reports that it works under WINE, but
> am not sure.
>
> In many respects, the situation with Kindle and ebooks is a lot like the
> situation with most portable music players--players all support non-DRM
> files, and most also support one or more DRM formats. It's your choice
> whether or not to obtain music from places that put DRM on it.
>
> Here's a review I posted a while back in comp.os.linux.advocacy (the
> Kindle runs Linux, so may be of interest to Linux advocates, which is
> why it was posted to COLA):
>

<snip>

Tim:

Very nice overview of the Kindle. I am leaning toward getting one, once
I have a few hundred bucks kicking around that I don't have to put into my
gas tank. Thank you for your thoughtful and informative reply.

--
MarkA
(This space temporarily unavailable)


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

In article <pan.2008.07.04.15.43.26.792788@nowhere.com>,
MarkA <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Very nice overview of the Kindle. I am leaning toward getting one, once
> I have a few hundred bucks kicking around that I don't have to put into my
> gas tank. Thank you for your thoughtful and informative reply.

There is also plenty of information in the forums at Amazon:

<http://www.amazon.com/tag/kindle/forum>


--
--Tim Smith

MarkA illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:

> <snip>
> Very nice overview of the Kindle. I am leaning toward getting one, once
> I have a few hundred bucks kicking around that I don't have to put into my
> gas tank. Thank you for your thoughtful and informative reply.

You think your gas fill-up is expensive? ;-)

Check this

In the UK we currently pay
£1.32 per litre....
or $2.62

Which equates to
£6.01 per gallon...
or $15.74

Are you weeping for us yet?

My "push-bike" is now being readied for my 100 mile round trip to the
office.

--
"I ran three miles today. Finally I said, "Lady take your purse." ~ Emo
Philips

Moog writes:
> Check this

Ok.

> In the UK we currently pay
> £1.32 per litre....
> or $2.62

> Which equates to
> £6.01 per gallon...
> or $15.74


($2.62/liter)*(3.78 liter/usgal)=$9.90/usgal

Using Imperial gallons:

($9.90/usgal)*(1.20 brgal/usgal)=$11.88/brgal


--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:06:49 +0000, Moog wrote:

> MarkA illuminated alt.os.linux.ubuntu by typing:
>
>> <snip>
>> Very nice overview of the Kindle. I am leaning toward getting one, once
>> I have a few hundred bucks kicking around that I don't have to put into my
>> gas tank. Thank you for your thoughtful and informative reply.
>
> You think your gas fill-up is expensive? ;-)
>
> Check this
>
> In the UK we currently pay
> £1.32 per litre....
> or $2.62
>
> Which equates to
> £6.01 per gallon...
> or $15.74
>
> Are you weeping for us yet?
>
> My "push-bike" is now being readied for my 100 mile round trip to the
> office.

I *used* to feel bad for the Europeans, when gas there was $4/gal. Now
it's up to $16? Yikes.

In the USA, so far, the public transportation system has been a joke.
Perhaps that will now change.

--
MarkA
(This space temporarily unavailable)


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com