So I'm shopping for parts for an MP3-playing computer, to replace my
200-CD carousel (that just forgot all the titles to my CDs). I quickly
realized SSDs are crazy expensive, and provide performance I just don't
need. (I sleep in there, so silence is paramount; heat is important too,
as the case is fanless.) So I decided to go with thumb drives. One won't
cut it because of size and reliability, so I figured I'd get five 16 GiB
thumb drives and use software RAID 5 (? N drives + parity) to turn them
into a ~64 GiB volume.

(1) How to boot? Slap stuff on a CD, and do what LiveCDs do to have the
boot disk unmounted? What is that, anyhow? Use another thumb drive
and make sure it stays mounted ro?

(2) I was reading a user comment at newegg, and he said regarding a hub:
"If you plan to plug in anything that needs power from the usb port,
(...flash drive...) don't bother. This cant provide enough power to do
any of it." Now here, I've never had problems running a flash drive
from an unpowered hub. Then again, I've never tried to run five of
them. I realize they have to have _some_ power. So how much power
do flash drives use actually? 10 mW? I'm looking specifically at
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820208378
The technical information says only that it's "USB powered".

--
-eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81

Drive nail here > < for new monitor.

On Sun, 04 May 2008 07:08:02 +0000, Hactar wrote:

> In article
> <aba68e1a-f336-458c-99b2-d4af30e2d9d4@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Dan
> Lenski <dlenski@gmail.com> wrote:
>> How about this instead? Use 4 CompactFlash cards instead of USB
>> drives. The hardware interface of CF is *identical* to ATA/IDE, so all
>> you need is a passive mechanical adapter.
>
> That will do nicely. Or rather, would have done, since I've decided to
> get a hacked Xbox instead. Yeah, not absolutely quiet, but pretty darn
> close, and a whole lot cheaper.

That works too :-)

> (For future reference, that URL is the same as
> http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ360047295141 )
>
> Not sure the proposed motherboard has two channels, lemme check... yep,
> it does. Does that adapter take up one 3.5" bay or two? I can't tell.

Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you can
even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE header, with
no cable in between.

>> So, get 2 of these adapter ($8) and 4 16gb CF cards (about $280 if you
>> go for the best deals).
>
> There are 32 GB cards out there. Here's one:
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820183191

True, but the GB/$ sweet spot is currently at 8gb or 16gb. Wait a month
or two and it'll change :-)

> What's the reliability like on CF cards, assuming you don't write to
> them often? Is it possible to make a RAID array of two devices, so that
> when one goes bad the computer can tell which one it is?

Reliability is good, even with a lot of writing. Wear leveling makes that
pretty much a non-issue these days, at least in terms of endurance. Wear
leveling can still cause write /performance/ to suffer.

Sure, Linux can software-RAID them like practically any other block
devices. Frankly, if it's just for storing MP3s, I would go with RAID 0
(striping, no redundancy) for 4X the speed of one card and 4X the
capacity. But if you consider your data more valuable, RAID 5 is a good
choice (would give 3X the capacity and 2-3X the speed).

>> And then you have a flexible, RAID-able 64gb SSD. Of course, at this
>> point you've basically reinvented the SSD, except that yours will be
>> pretty slow unless you go for the fast and pricey CF cards...
>
> Naw, speed's not important in this application. I mean, _glacial_ is
> bad, but anything reasonable is OK.

Eh... cheap CF cards are *really* slow, like <1 MB/s write speed. RAID
will help, of course.

Dan

In article <jaHTj.13355$GE1.2146@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Dan Lenski <dlenski@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 04 May 2008 07:08:02 +0000, Hactar wrote:
>
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ360047295141
> >
> > Not sure the proposed motherboard has two channels, lemme check... yep,
> > it does. Does that adapter take up one 3.5" bay or two? I can't tell.
>
> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you can
> even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE header, with
> no cable in between.

Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one bay...

> > Is it possible to make a RAID array of two devices, so that
> > when one goes bad the computer can tell which one it is?
>
> Sure, Linux can software-RAID them like practically any other block
> devices. Frankly, if it's just for storing MP3s, I would go with RAID 0
> (striping, no redundancy) for 4X the speed of one card and 4X the
> capacity. But if you consider your data more valuable, RAID 5 is a good
> choice (would give 3X the capacity and 2-3X the speed).

Yeah, recompressing 250+ CDs into MP3s would be a real pain, so it'd be
nice to make the array mostly insensitive to card failure, at the
expense of speed. I figure 50 GB=~300 CDs gives me some breathing room.

--
-eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP http://royalty.mine.nu:81
LEO: Now is not a good time to photocopy your butt and staple it
to your boss' face, oh no. Eat a bucket of tuna-flavored pudding
and wash it down with a gallon of strawberry Quik. -- Weird Al

On Mon, 05 May 2008 22:08:00 +0000, Hactar wrote:
>> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you
>> can even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE
>> header, with no cable in between.
>
> Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
> bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
> and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one
> bay...

The specs on the auction show them as being 7x6.3x1.2 cm without cards,
so it won't be a problem... although may be a little messy with the
cables, so you might prefer the version that plugs directly into the IDE
header, if you have the clearance for it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/
_W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(how do you get the short urls???)

Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!

http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...r/ad4cfprj.asp

>> Sure, Linux can software-RAID them like practically any other block
>> devices. Frankly, if it's just for storing MP3s, I would go with RAID
>> 0 (striping, no redundancy) for 4X the speed of one card and 4X the
>> capacity. But if you consider your data more valuable, RAID 5 is a
>> good choice (would give 3X the capacity and 2-3X the speed).
>
> Yeah, recompressing 250+ CDs into MP3s would be a real pain, so it'd be
> nice to make the array mostly insensitive to card failure, at the
> expense of speed. I figure 50 GB=~300 CDs gives me some breathing room.

Seems reasonable! Four 16gb cards will give you 48gb, would be a pretty
nice setup.

Dan

On Mon, 05 May 2008 22:08:00 +0000, Hactar wrote:
>> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you
>> can even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE
>> header, with no cable in between.
>
> Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
> bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
> and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one
> bay...

The specs on the auction show them as being 7x6.3x1.2 cm without cards,
so it won't be a problem... although may be a little messy with the
cables, so you might prefer the version that plugs directly into the IDE
header, if you have the clearance for it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/
_W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(how do you get the short urls???)

Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!

http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...r/ad4cfprj.asp

>> Sure, Linux can software-RAID them like practically any other block
>> devices. Frankly, if it's just for storing MP3s, I would go with RAID
>> 0 (striping, no redundancy) for 4X the speed of one card and 4X the
>> capacity. But if you consider your data more valuable, RAID 5 is a
>> good choice (would give 3X the capacity and 2-3X the speed).
>
> Yeah, recompressing 250+ CDs into MP3s would be a real pain, so it'd be
> nice to make the array mostly insensitive to card failure, at the
> expense of speed. I figure 50 GB=~300 CDs gives me some breathing room.

Seems reasonable! Four 16gb cards will give you 48gb, would be a pretty
nice setup.

Dan

In article <NvOTj.1772$nW2.582@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Daniel Lenski <dlenski@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 May 2008 22:08:00 +0000, Hactar wrote:
> >> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you
> >> can even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE
> >> header, with no cable in between.
> >
> > Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
> > bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
> > and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one
> > bay...
>
> The specs on the auction show them as being 7x6.3x1.2 cm without cards,
> so it won't be a problem... although may be a little messy with the
> cables, so you might prefer the version that plugs directly into the IDE
> header, if you have the clearance for it:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/
> _W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> (how do you get the short urls???)

Manual trimming. Think a regular multi-argument URL, except s/?/_W0QQ/,
s/&/QQ/, and s/=/Z/ . You only need _W0QQitemZwhatever, all the
other args including title can go byebye. This must be a homebrew syntax,
since TTBOMK nobody else does it that way.

> Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
> 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
>
> http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...r/ad4cfprj.asp

Nifty. Chipset supported by Linux?

--
"Never go off on tangents, which are lines that intersect a curve at
only one point and were discovered by Euclid, who lived in the 6th
century, which was an era dominated by the Goths, who lived in what we
now know as Poland." - from Nov. 1998 issue of Infosystems Executive.

In article <NvOTj.1772$nW2.582@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
Daniel Lenski <dlenski@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 May 2008 22:08:00 +0000, Hactar wrote:
> >> Actually, those adapters are a *lot* smaller than a drive bay... you
> >> can even get 2-CF-to-IDE adapters that plug directly into the IDE
> >> header, with no cable in between.
> >
> > Cool. Even if they're 2-cards-per-3.5"-bay, if the case only has one
> > bay and I need four cards, I'm out of luck though. But if they're nice
> > and small, maybe I can fit four cards (2xforward + 2xbackward) in one
> > bay...
>
> The specs on the auction show them as being 7x6.3x1.2 cm without cards,
> so it won't be a problem... although may be a little messy with the
> cables, so you might prefer the version that plugs directly into the IDE
> header, if you have the clearance for it:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/
> _W0QQitemZ320248029565QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41993QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> (how do you get the short urls???)

Manual trimming. Think a regular multi-argument URL, except s/?/_W0QQ/,
s/&/QQ/, and s/=/Z/ . You only need _W0QQitemZwhatever, all the
other args including title can go byebye. This must be a homebrew syntax,
since TTBOMK nobody else does it that way.

> Also, this is pretty cool, it's a 4-drive IDE controller card that takes
> 4 CF cards, in one PCI slot!
>
> http://www.addonics.com/products/fla...r/ad4cfprj.asp

Nifty. Chipset supported by Linux?

--
"Never go off on tangents, which are lines that intersect a curve at
only one point and were discovered by Euclid, who lived in the 6th
century, which was an era dominated by the Goths, who lived in what we
now know as Poland." - from Nov. 1998 issue of Infosystems Executive.

Daniel Lenski wrote:

>
> (how do you get the short urls???)

You could try tinyurl.com (free), and for the paranoid, quote the url
generated as http://preview.tinyurl.com/xxxx

John McCallum

Daniel Lenski wrote:

>
> (how do you get the short urls???)

You could try tinyurl.com (free), and for the paranoid, quote the url
generated as http://preview.tinyurl.com/xxxx

John McCallum

In article <fvpg42$9k9$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
John McCallum <john.mccallum@skipthisemerson.com> wrote:
> Daniel Lenski wrote:
>
> > (how do you get the short urls???)
>
> You could try tinyurl.com (free), and for the paranoid, quote the url
> generated as http://preview.tinyurl.com/xxxx

Disadvantage: You can't tell where the link leads before taking it, but
at least you can tell before going there.

Advantage: Little work, guaranteed to be short (~31 chars).

--
-eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP royalty.mine.nu:81

Drive nail here > < for new monitor.