"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:6bvaoaF3e31erU3@mid.individual.net...
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:02:54 -0700, Rahul wrote:
>
>> I just bought a new LiIon Laptop battery for my Dell Inspirion E1505
>> (dual boot WinXP and Fedora).
>>
>> I gave it my initial 10 hour charge. Now what? I started using it but
>> should I continue using it till the battery is drained and then
>> recharge? Or should I only drain it partially? If it is not drained
>> fully how will the Laptop learn (callibrate) itself to what the new
>> capacity is?
>>
>> Or is it recommended that I only partially discharge it? What's best for
>> the battery life?
>>
>> Another point: How many times should I cycle it this way? In the long
>> term should I always wait for a full discharge; or can I charge it up
>> from a partially-discharged state or does it not matter?
>>
>> I've gogled this but recieve conflicting advice.
>
> From what I've read Li-ion batteries are immune to the 'memory' problems
> of NiCd batteries - it does not really matter much when you charge them -
> do what is convenient for you. You should also be aware that they loose
> about 10% capacity per year and there is not a damned thing you can do
> about it.

The evidence for this is largely anecdotal. I have batteries that are
nearly 15 years old which, if this theory were true, would be useless.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:55:55 +0100, M.I.5Ÿ wrote:

> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
> news:6bvaoaF3e31erU3@mid.individual.net...
>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:02:54 -0700, Rahul wrote:
>>
>>> I just bought a new LiIon Laptop battery for my Dell Inspirion E1505
>>> (dual boot WinXP and Fedora).
>>>
>>> I gave it my initial 10 hour charge. Now what? I started using it but
>>> should I continue using it till the battery is drained and then
>>> recharge? Or should I only drain it partially? If it is not drained
>>> fully how will the Laptop learn (callibrate) itself to what the new
>>> capacity is?
>>>
>>> Or is it recommended that I only partially discharge it? What's best
>>> for the battery life?
>>>
>>> Another point: How many times should I cycle it this way? In the long
>>> term should I always wait for a full discharge; or can I charge it up
>>> from a partially-discharged state or does it not matter?
>>>
>>> I've gogled this but recieve conflicting advice.
>>
>> From what I've read Li-ion batteries are immune to the 'memory'
>> problems of NiCd batteries - it does not really matter much when you
>> charge them - do what is convenient for you. You should also be aware
>> that they loose about 10% capacity per year and there is not a damned
>> thing you can do about it.
>
> The evidence for this is largely anecdotal. I have batteries that are
> nearly 15 years old which, if this theory were true, would be useless.

Really - I was not aware that rechargable Li-ion batteries had been around
that long! So are they really as good as new or only carrying 15% of
original charge? Did you do any measurements?

"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:6c1utvF3e9107U4@mid.individual.net...
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:55:55 +0100, M.I.5Y wrote:
>
>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>> news:6bvaoaF3e31erU3@mid.individual.net...
>>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:02:54 -0700, Rahul wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just bought a new LiIon Laptop battery for my Dell Inspirion E1505
>>>> (dual boot WinXP and Fedora).
>>>>
>>>> I gave it my initial 10 hour charge. Now what? I started using it but
>>>> should I continue using it till the battery is drained and then
>>>> recharge? Or should I only drain it partially? If it is not drained
>>>> fully how will the Laptop learn (callibrate) itself to what the new
>>>> capacity is?
>>>>
>>>> Or is it recommended that I only partially discharge it? What's best
>>>> for the battery life?
>>>>
>>>> Another point: How many times should I cycle it this way? In the long
>>>> term should I always wait for a full discharge; or can I charge it up
>>>> from a partially-discharged state or does it not matter?
>>>>
>>>> I've gogled this but recieve conflicting advice.
>>>
>>> From what I've read Li-ion batteries are immune to the 'memory'
>>> problems of NiCd batteries - it does not really matter much when you
>>> charge them - do what is convenient for you. You should also be aware
>>> that they loose about 10% capacity per year and there is not a damned
>>> thing you can do about it.
>>
>> The evidence for this is largely anecdotal. I have batteries that are
>> nearly 15 years old which, if this theory were true, would be useless.
>
> Really - I was not aware that rechargable Li-ion batteries had been around
> that long! So are they really as good as new or only carrying 15% of
> original charge? Did you do any measurements?

Li-ion batteries have ben around since the early part of the 1990's (and
probably before). The examples cited all exhibit close to their original
capacity (as far as I can tell - they run for near enough the orignal time).
One of the batteries reports that it is only 70% charged after being fully
charged, but otherwise works as well as the others.

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in
news:485f4c12$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net:

>
> Li-ion batteries have ben around since the early part of the 1990's
> (and probably before). The examples cited all exhibit close to their
> original capacity (as far as I can tell - they run for near enough the
> orignal time). One of the batteries reports that it is only 70%
> charged after being fully charged, but otherwise works as well as the
> others.
>
>

Thanks for all the hints and sugesstions guys! I am sure that following
those will lead to a longer life than my last Dell battery( approx 1.5
years no way to track the charge discharge cycles)

I wish there was a setting / freeware to track the number of cycles my
battery goes through. At least that way people will have a more
quantitative way to track their results.

--
Rahul

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
> news:6c1utvF3e9107U4@mid.individual.net...
>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:55:55 +0100, M.I.5Y wrote:
>>
>>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:6bvaoaF3e31erU3@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:02:54 -0700, Rahul wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I just bought a new LiIon Laptop battery for my Dell Inspirion E1505
>>>>> (dual boot WinXP and Fedora).
>>>>>
>>>>> I gave it my initial 10 hour charge. Now what? I started using it but
>>>>> should I continue using it till the battery is drained and then
>>>>> recharge? Or should I only drain it partially? If it is not drained
>>>>> fully how will the Laptop learn (callibrate) itself to what the new
>>>>> capacity is?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or is it recommended that I only partially discharge it? What's best
>>>>> for the battery life?
>>>>>
>>>>> Another point: How many times should I cycle it this way? In the long
>>>>> term should I always wait for a full discharge; or can I charge it up
>>>>> from a partially-discharged state or does it not matter?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've gogled this but recieve conflicting advice.
>>>>
>>>> From what I've read Li-ion batteries are immune to the 'memory'
>>>> problems of NiCd batteries - it does not really matter much when you
>>>> charge them - do what is convenient for you. You should also be aware
>>>> that they loose about 10% capacity per year and there is not a damned
>>>> thing you can do about it.
>>>
>>> The evidence for this is largely anecdotal. I have batteries that are
>>> nearly 15 years old which, if this theory were true, would be useless.
>>
>> Really - I was not aware that rechargable Li-ion batteries had been
>> around
>> that long! So are they really as good as new or only carrying 15% of
>> original charge? Did you do any measurements?
>
> Li-ion batteries have ben around since the early part of the 1990's (and
> probably before). The examples cited all exhibit close to their original
> capacity (as far as I can tell - they run for near enough the orignal
> time).
> One of the batteries reports that it is only 70% charged after being fully
> charged, but otherwise works as well as the others.

Have the Li-ion batteries essentially replaced the NiCad ones? Or are the
latter just cheaper (just guessing), and still used for economy, or for some
other reason?

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eINmqSZ1IHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>> news:6c1utvF3e9107U4@mid.individual.net...
>>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:55:55 +0100, M.I.5Y wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:6bvaoaF3e31erU3@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:02:54 -0700, Rahul wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just bought a new LiIon Laptop battery for my Dell Inspirion E1505
>>>>>> (dual boot WinXP and Fedora).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I gave it my initial 10 hour charge. Now what? I started using it but
>>>>>> should I continue using it till the battery is drained and then
>>>>>> recharge? Or should I only drain it partially? If it is not drained
>>>>>> fully how will the Laptop learn (callibrate) itself to what the new
>>>>>> capacity is?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or is it recommended that I only partially discharge it? What's best
>>>>>> for the battery life?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another point: How many times should I cycle it this way? In the long
>>>>>> term should I always wait for a full discharge; or can I charge it up
>>>>>> from a partially-discharged state or does it not matter?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've gogled this but recieve conflicting advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> From what I've read Li-ion batteries are immune to the 'memory'
>>>>> problems of NiCd batteries - it does not really matter much when you
>>>>> charge them - do what is convenient for you. You should also be aware
>>>>> that they loose about 10% capacity per year and there is not a damned
>>>>> thing you can do about it.
>>>>
>>>> The evidence for this is largely anecdotal. I have batteries that are
>>>> nearly 15 years old which, if this theory were true, would be useless.
>>>
>>> Really - I was not aware that rechargable Li-ion batteries had been
>>> around
>>> that long! So are they really as good as new or only carrying 15% of
>>> original charge? Did you do any measurements?
>>
>> Li-ion batteries have ben around since the early part of the 1990's (and
>> probably before). The examples cited all exhibit close to their original
>> capacity (as far as I can tell - they run for near enough the orignal
>> time).
>> One of the batteries reports that it is only 70% charged after being
>> fully
>> charged, but otherwise works as well as the others.
>
> Have the Li-ion batteries essentially replaced the NiCad ones? Or are
> the latter just cheaper (just guessing), and still used for economy, or
> for some other reason?

Nickel-Cadmium batteries are no longer recommended for new products. This
is due to environmental concerns of the relatively toxic cadmium. They are
available for support of older products that used them. Although Nickel
Metal-Hydride appeared as a replacement, they are are not direct
replacements in most applications.

M.I.5¾ wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:eINmqSZ1IHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:6c1utvF3e9107U4@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:55:55 +0100, M.I.5Y wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:6bvaoaF3e31erU3@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:02:54 -0700, Rahul wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just bought a new LiIon Laptop battery for my Dell Inspirion E1505
>>>>>>> (dual boot WinXP and Fedora).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I gave it my initial 10 hour charge. Now what? I started using it
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> should I continue using it till the battery is drained and then
>>>>>>> recharge? Or should I only drain it partially? If it is not drained
>>>>>>> fully how will the Laptop learn (callibrate) itself to what the new
>>>>>>> capacity is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or is it recommended that I only partially discharge it? What's best
>>>>>>> for the battery life?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another point: How many times should I cycle it this way? In the
>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> term should I always wait for a full discharge; or can I charge it
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> from a partially-discharged state or does it not matter?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've gogled this but recieve conflicting advice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From what I've read Li-ion batteries are immune to the 'memory'
>>>>>> problems of NiCd batteries - it does not really matter much when you
>>>>>> charge them - do what is convenient for you. You should also be aware
>>>>>> that they loose about 10% capacity per year and there is not a damned
>>>>>> thing you can do about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The evidence for this is largely anecdotal. I have batteries that are
>>>>> nearly 15 years old which, if this theory were true, would be useless.
>>>>
>>>> Really - I was not aware that rechargable Li-ion batteries had been
>>>> around
>>>> that long! So are they really as good as new or only carrying 15% of
>>>> original charge? Did you do any measurements?
>>>
>>> Li-ion batteries have ben around since the early part of the 1990's (and
>>> probably before). The examples cited all exhibit close to their
>>> original
>>> capacity (as far as I can tell - they run for near enough the orignal
>>> time).
>>> One of the batteries reports that it is only 70% charged after being
>>> fully charged, but otherwise works as well as the others.
>>
>> Have the Li-ion batteries essentially replaced the NiCad ones? Or are
>> the latter just cheaper (just guessing), and still used for economy, or
>> for some other reason?
>
> Nickel-Cadmium batteries are no longer recommended for new products. This
> is due to environmental concerns of the relatively toxic cadmium. They
> are
> available for support of older products that used them. Although Nickel
> Metal-Hydride appeared as a replacement, they are are not direct
> replacements in most applications.

Interesting - thanks.
But is this because they weren't available in the identical size packages,
with the same electrical capacity (i.e., voltage, ma-hrs, etc)? Or because
of the external charging circuitry (if any) possibly having different
requirements?

Bill in Co. wrote:

> M.I.5¾ wrote:
>
>>"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:eINmqSZ1IHA.3756@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>M.I.5¾ wrote:
>>>
>>>>"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:6c1utvF3e9107U4@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:55:55 +0100, M.I.5Y wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:6bvaoaF3e31erU3@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:02:54 -0700, Rahul wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I just bought a new LiIon Laptop battery for my Dell Inspirion E1505
>>>>>>>>(dual boot WinXP and Fedora).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I gave it my initial 10 hour charge. Now what? I started using it
>>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>should I continue using it till the battery is drained and then
>>>>>>>>recharge? Or should I only drain it partially? If it is not drained
>>>>>>>>fully how will the Laptop learn (callibrate) itself to what the new
>>>>>>>>capacity is?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Or is it recommended that I only partially discharge it? What's best
>>>>>>>>for the battery life?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Another point: How many times should I cycle it this way? In the
>>>>>>>>long
>>>>>>>>term should I always wait for a full discharge; or can I charge it
>>>>>>>>up
>>>>>>>>from a partially-discharged state or does it not matter?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've gogled this but recieve conflicting advice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From what I've read Li-ion batteries are immune to the 'memory'
>>>>>>>problems of NiCd batteries - it does not really matter much when you
>>>>>>>charge them - do what is convenient for you. You should also be aware
>>>>>>>that they loose about 10% capacity per year and there is not a damned
>>>>>>>thing you can do about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The evidence for this is largely anecdotal. I have batteries that are
>>>>>>nearly 15 years old which, if this theory were true, would be useless.
>>>>>
>>>>>Really - I was not aware that rechargable Li-ion batteries had been
>>>>>around
>>>>>that long! So are they really as good as new or only carrying 15% of
>>>>>original charge? Did you do any measurements?
>>>>
>>>>Li-ion batteries have ben around since the early part of the 1990's (and
>>>>probably before). The examples cited all exhibit close to their
>>>>original
>>>>capacity (as far as I can tell - they run for near enough the orignal
>>>>time).
>>>>One of the batteries reports that it is only 70% charged after being
>>>>fully charged, but otherwise works as well as the others.
>>>
>>>Have the Li-ion batteries essentially replaced the NiCad ones? Or are
>>>the latter just cheaper (just guessing), and still used for economy, or
>>>for some other reason?
>>
>>Nickel-Cadmium batteries are no longer recommended for new products. This
>>is due to environmental concerns of the relatively toxic cadmium. They
>>are
>>available for support of older products that used them. Although Nickel
>>Metal-Hydride appeared as a replacement, they are are not direct
>>replacements in most applications.
>
>
> Interesting - thanks.
> But is this because they weren't available in the identical size packages,
> with the same electrical capacity (i.e., voltage, ma-hrs, etc)? Or because
> of the external charging circuitry (if any) possibly having different
> requirements?
>
>
See
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search
and
http://www.servocity.com/html/nicad_...batteries.html

"M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> writes:
>
>"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> Have the Li-ion batteries essentially replaced the NiCad ones? Or are
>> the latter just cheaper (just guessing), and still used for economy, or
>> for some other reason?
>
>Nickel-Cadmium batteries are no longer recommended for new products. This
>is due to environmental concerns of the relatively toxic cadmium.

More importantly, Nickel Metal-Hydride batteries have a much higher
capacity than Nickel-Cadmium batteries (e.g., for AA Cells 2000mAh
instead of 700mAh).

> They are
>available for support of older products that used them. Although Nickel
>Metal-Hydride appeared as a replacement, they are are not direct
>replacements in most applications.

In most applications I know, they are direct replacements, because
they produce the same voltage per cell (1.2V) and are available in the
same form factors (AA, AAA).

- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Anton Ertl wrote:

> "M.I.5¾" <no.one@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> writes:
>>
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> Have the Li-ion batteries essentially replaced the NiCad ones? Or are
>>> the latter just cheaper (just guessing), and still used for economy, or
>>> for some other reason?
>>
>> Nickel-Cadmium batteries are no longer recommended for new products. This
>> is due to environmental concerns of the relatively toxic cadmium.
>
> More importantly, Nickel Metal-Hydride batteries have a much higher
> capacity than Nickel-Cadmium batteries (e.g., for AA Cells 2000mAh
> instead of 700mAh).
>
>> They are
>> available for support of older products that used them. Although Nickel
>> Metal-Hydride appeared as a replacement, they are are not direct
>> replacements in most applications.
>
> In most applications I know, they are direct replacements, because
> they produce the same voltage per cell (1.2V) and are available in the
> same form factors (AA, AAA).
>
> - anton

_Optimal_ use of NiMH cells requires a bit different charger.

-f