> > ... But now after doing more research, I think an
> > Intel 8400 would be more appropriate, which they don't market in
> > combination with theSG31G2. The question is If I can get the motherboard
> > to recognize it, which Shuttle says it can is there any problem
> > with getting linux to recognize it? Does the linux system depend on
> > the processor directly or the motherboard having the right kind of
> > interaction with the CPU?
>
> All hardware is important, but I haven't heard of a processor before -
> especially in the /x86/ range - that doesn't support Linux. In fact, one
> of the strengths of GNU/Linux is that it runs on practically every
> platform.
>

I have built my computer, thus far with no hard disk (I have it but
don't have it installed),
and have been running a Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit live disk on it. However I
have some doubts
as to whether the motherboard is recognizing the e8400 correctly.
That is look at the l2
cache:

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo lshw
ubuntu
description: Desktop Computer
product: SG31
vendor: Shuttle Inc
version: V10
serial: 0
width: 32 bits
capabilities: smbios-2.5 dmi-2.5 smp-1.4 smp
configuration: boot=normal chassis=desktop cpus=0
uuid=01020907-0301-0103-08 07-060504030201
*-core
description: Motherboard
product: FG31
vendor: Shuttle Inc
physical id: 0
version: V10
serial: 0
*-firmware
description: BIOS
vendor: Phoenix Technologies, LTD
physical id: 0
version: 6.00 PG (01/18/2008)
size: 128KiB
capacity: 960KiB
capabilities: isa pci pnp apm upgrade shadowing cdboot
bootselect sock etedrom edd int13floppy360 int13floppy1200
int13floppy720 int13floppy2880 int5pr intscreen int9keyboard
int14serial int17printer int10video acpi usb ls120boot zi pboot
biosbootspecification
*-cpu
description: CPU
product: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz
vendor: Intel Corp.
physical id: 5
bus info: cpu@0
version: Intel(R)
slot: Socket 775
size: 2997MHz
capacity: 4GHz
width: 64 bits
clock: 333MHz
capabilities: fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr pae
mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx
fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx x86-64 constant_tsc
arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good pni monitor ds_cp l vmx smx est tm2
ssse3 cx16 xtpr sse4_1 lahf_lm
*-cache:0
description: L1 cache
physical id: b
slot: Internal Cache
size: 32KiB
capacity: 32KiB
capabilities: synchronous internal write-back
*-cache:1 DISABLED
description: L2 cache
physical id: c
slot: External Cache
capabilities: synchronous external write-back
*-memory
description: System Memory
physical id: 18
slot: System board or motherboard
size: 4GiB
*-bank:0
description: DIMM Synchronous 800 MHz (1.2 ns)
physical id: 0
slot: A0
size: 2GiB
clock: 800MHz (1.2ns)
*-bank:1
description: DIMM [empty]
physical id: 1
slot: A1
*-bank:2
description: DIMM Synchronous 800 MHz (1.2 ns)
physical id: 2
slot: A2
size: 2GiB
clock: 800MHz (1.2ns)
*-bank:3
description: DIMM [empty]
physical id: 3
slot: A3
*-pci
description: Host bridge
product: 82G33/G31/P35/P31 Express DRAM Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 100
bus info: pci@0000:00:00.0
version: 02
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
configuration: driver=agpgart-intel module=intel_agp
*-display:0 UNCLAIMED
description: VGA compatible controller
product: 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 2
bus info: pci@0000:00:02.0
version: 02
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: msi pm vga_controller bus_master cap_list
configuration: latency=0
*-display:1 UNCLAIMED
description: Display controller
product: 82G33/G31 Express Integrated Graphics Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 2.1
bus info: pci@0000:00:02.1
version: 02
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm bus_master cap_list
configuration: latency=0
*-multimedia
description: Audio device
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio
Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1b
bus info: pci@0000:00:1b.0
version: 01
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm msi pciexpress bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=HDA Intel latency=0
module=snd_hda_intel
*-pci:0
description: PCI bridge
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) PCI Express Port 1
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1c
bus info: pci@0000:00:1c.0
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pci pciexpress msi pm normal_decode
bus_master cap_li st
configuration: driver=pcieport-driver
*-pci:1
description: PCI bridge
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) PCI Express Port 2
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1c.1
bus info: pci@0000:00:1c.1
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pci pciexpress msi pm normal_decode
bus_master cap_li st
configuration: driver=pcieport-driver
*-network
description: Ethernet interface
product: 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller
vendor: Marvell Technology Group Ltd.
physical id: 0
bus info: pci@0000:02:00.0
logical name: eth0
version: 12
serial: 00:30:1b:45:db:99
size: 100MB/s
capacity: 1GB/s
width: 64 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm vpd msi pciexpress bus_master
cap_list ethernet physical tp 10bt 10bt-fd 100bt 100bt-fd 1000bt
1000bt-fd autonegotiation
configuration: autonegotiation=on broadcast=yes
driver=sky2 driv erversion=1.20 duplex=full firmware=N/A
ip=192.168.1.101 latency=0 link=yes modu le=sky2 multicast=yes
port=twisted pair speed=100MB/s
*-usb:0
description: USB Controller
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI Controller #1
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1d
bus info: pci@0000:00:1d.0
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: uhci bus_master
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=0 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:1
description: USB Controller
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI Controller #2
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1d.1
bus info: pci@0000:00:1d.1
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: uhci bus_master
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=0 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:2
description: USB Controller
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI Controller #3
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1d.2
bus info: pci@0000:00:1d.2
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: uhci bus_master
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=0 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:3
description: USB Controller
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB UHCI Controller #4
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1d.3
bus info: pci@0000:00:1d.3
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: uhci bus_master
configuration: driver=uhci_hcd latency=0 module=uhci_hcd
*-usb:4
description: USB Controller
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1d.7
bus info: pci@0000:00:1d.7
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm debug ehci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=ehci_hcd latency=0 module=ehci_hcd
*-pci:2
description: PCI bridge
product: 82801 PCI Bridge
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1e
bus info: pci@0000:00:1e.0
version: e1
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pci subtractive_decode bus_master cap_list
*-firewire
description: FireWire (IEEE 1394)
product: TSB43AB22/A IEEE-1394a-2000 Controller (PHY/
Link)
vendor: Texas Instruments
physical id: a
bus info: pci@0000:03:0a.0
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: pm ohci bus_master cap_list
configuration: driver=ohci1394 latency=32 maxlatency=4
mingnt=2 module=ohci1394
*-isa
description: ISA bridge
product: 82801GB/GR (ICH7 Family) LPC Interface Bridge
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1f
bus info: pci@0000:00:1f.0
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: isa bus_master cap_list
configuration: latency=0
*-ide:0
description: IDE interface
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) IDE Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1f.1
bus info: pci@0000:00:1f.1
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
capabilities: ide bus_master
configuration: driver=ata_piix latency=0 module=ata_piix
*-ide:1
description: IDE interface
product: 82801GB/GR/GH (ICH7 Family) SATA IDE Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1f.2
bus info: pci@0000:00:1f.2
logical name: scsi2
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 66MHz
capabilities: ide pm bus_master cap_list emulated
configuration: driver=ata_piix latency=0 module=ata_piix
*-cdrom
description: DVD-RAM writer
product: DVDRW LH-20A1L
vendor: LITE-ON
physical id: 0.0.0
bus info: scsi@2:0.0.0
logical name: /dev/cdrom
logical name: /dev/dvd
logical name: /dev/scd0
logical name: /dev/sr0
logical name: /cdrom
version: BL06
capabilities: removable audio cd-r cd-rw dvd dvd-r dvd-
ram
configuration: ansiversion=5 mount.fstype=iso9660
mount.options= ro,noatime,relatime state=mounted status=ready
*-medium
physical id: 0
logical name: /dev/cdrom
logical name: /cdrom
configuration: mount.fstype=iso9660
mount.options=ro,noatime, relatime state=mounted
*-serial UNCLAIMED
description: SMBus
product: 82801G (ICH7 Family) SMBus Controller
vendor: Intel Corporation
physical id: 1f.3
bus info: pci@0000:00:1f.3
version: 01
width: 32 bits
clock: 33MHz
configuration: latency=0
ubuntu@ubuntu:~$


Is this a bug in the lshw program or what, to not report the l2
cache? How could I check on
this?
u

On Wednesday 25 June 2008 11:31, someone who identifies as *Rico* wrote
in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/

> I have built my computer, thus far with no hard disk (I have it but
> don't have it installed), and have been running a Ubuntu 8.04 64-bit live
> disk on it. However I have some doubts as to whether the motherboard is
> recognizing the e8400 correctly. That is look at the l2 cache:
>
> [...]
> *-cache:0
> description: L1 cache
> physical id: b
> slot: Internal Cache
> size: 32KiB
> capacity: 32KiB
> capabilities: synchronous internal write-back
> *-cache:1 DISABLED
> description: L2 cache
> physical id: c
> slot: External Cache
> capabilities: synchronous external write-back
> [...]
> Is this a bug in the lshw program or what, to not report the l2
> cache? How could I check on this?

L2 cache can be enabled or disabled in the BIOS set-up program, so you
should check there, and consult the motherboard manual. I doubt that there
is a bug in /lshw/ with regard to this issue.

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

> L2 cache can be enabled or disabled in the BIOS set-up program, so you
> should check there, and consult the motherboard manual. I doubt that there
> is a bug in /lshw/ with regard to this issue.
>
> --
> *Aragorn*
> (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

I have searched the bios settings and the manual, there is no explicit
control for the
l2 cache (unlike some of my older machines, which have also an award
bios, but have
some cpu cache controls). There is some cpu features control, but
none of the options
set forth in the manual explicitly have to do with the l2 cache. The
ones that look
like they might have in some remote chance something to do with the l2
cache
are 'PPM Mode', 'Limit CPUID MAXVal' 'Virtualization Technology' 'Core
Multi-processing'.

On Wednesday 25 June 2008 23:32, someone who identifies as *Rico* wrote
in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/

>> L2 cache can be enabled or disabled in the BIOS set-up program, so you
>> should check there, and consult the motherboard manual. I doubt that
>> there is a bug in /lshw/ with regard to this issue.
>
> I have searched the bios settings and the manual, there is no explicit
> control for the l2 cache (unlike some of my older machines, which have
> also an award bios, but have some cpu cache controls). There is some cpu
> features control, but none of the options set forth in the manual
> explicitly have to do with the l2 cache.

Still, there should be a summary screen telling you how much L2 cache is
available.

> The ones that look like they might have in some remote chance something to
> do with the l2 cache are 'PPM Mode'

Doesn't ring a bell...

> , 'Limit CPUID MAXVal'

Has to do with the CPUID numbers. I'm not entirely sure what it means, but
it is either a limitation on the numbering of CPUs or a limitation on the
number of CPUs you can use. In the latter case, this presumably because of
licensing per CPU of some proprietary operating systems - notably the ones
from Microsoft.

> 'Virtualization Technology'

Has nothing to do with cache. This is the Intel hardware virtualization
support on your CPU(s) and memory controller. If you enable this, you will
be able to do hardware virtualization, i.e. the running of unmodified
operating systems inside virtual machines (as opposed to
paravirtualization, i.e. the running of modified operating systems inside
virtual machines).

> 'Core Multi-processing'.

Has nothing to do with cache either. This presumably has to do with setting
up the APIC(s) and local APICs for symmetric multiprocessing. Sorry I
can't be more specific, but I have little experience with the latest Intel
offerings... :-/

As a sidenote however, /lshw/ gets its information from */proc* and possibly
from the kernel ring buffer - I don't have /lshw/ installed on this machine
here so I don't know exactly, but the /man/ page should be able to tell you
more - and then there is also /dmesg/ which you can consult to see the
contents of the actual kernel ring buffer.

As root, issue...

dmesg | less

.... at a character mode console. Use *PgUp/PgDn* or the arrow keys to page
through the screen. Press "q" to exit and return to the commandline
prompt.

This said, you are doing this check from a live CD, which is not the same
thing as an installed distribution. For one, it won't have the latest
kernel, and secondly, to my experience live CDs often have insufficiently
tested kernels.

On the other hand, I would be thoroughly surprised if Linux didn't use or
find your L2 cache, since this is something enabled or disabled at the
hardware level, not from within the kernel, and I have certainly never
heard of any cache problems with Linux. So in the end, it /may/ be a
shortcoming of the /lshw/ version on your live CD, or possibly a flaw in
the kernel's ring buffer output.

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

On Jun 25, 6:12 pm, Aragorn <arag...@chatfactory.invalid> wrote:
....
> On the other hand, I would be thoroughly surprised if Linux didn't use or
> find your L2 cache, since this is something enabled or disabled at the
> hardware level, not from within the kernel, and I have certainly never
> heard of any cache problems with Linux. So in the end, it /may/ be a
> shortcoming of the /lshw/ version on your live CD, or possibly a flaw in
> the kernel's ring buffer output.
>
> --
> *Aragorn*
> (registered GNU/Linux user #223157)

I did as you said part of my dmesg output is:

[ 31.644605] CPU: L1 I cache: 32K, L1 D cache: 32K
[ 31.644606] CPU: L2 cache: 6144K
[ 31.644607] CPU 1/1 -> Node 0
[ 31.644608] CPU: Physical Processor ID: 0
[ 31.644609] CPU: Processor Core ID: 1
[ 31.644613] CPU1: Thermal monitoring enabled (TM2)
[ 31.645229] Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz
stepping 06
[ 31.645273] checking TSC synchronization [CPU#0 -> CPU#1]: passed.
[ 31.665283] Brought up 2 CPUs
[ 31.665339] CPU0 attaching sched-domain:
[ 31.665341] domain 0: span 03
[ 31.665341] groups: 01 02
[ 31.665343] domain 1: span 03
[ 31.665344] groups: 03
[ 31.665345] CPU1 attaching sched-domain:
[ 31.665346] domain 0: span 03
[ 31.665347] groups: 02 01
[ 31.665348] domain 1: span 03
[ 31.665349] groups: 03

Now does this mean that the kernel uses the l2 cache, or that this is
part of the message
that the e8400 spews? I see no message in the entire dmesg output
that the l2 output
has been disabled or anything out of what I would expect...

On Thursday 26 June 2008 05:02, someone who identifies as *Rico* wrote
in /comp.os.linux.hardware:/

> On Jun 25, 6:12 pm, Aragorn <arag...@chatfactory.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, I would be thoroughly surprised if Linux didn't use or
>> find your L2 cache, since this is something enabled or disabled at the
>> hardware level, not from within the kernel, and I have certainly never
>> heard of any cache problems with Linux. So in the end, it /may/ be a
>> shortcoming of the /lshw/ version on your live CD, or possibly a flaw in
>> the kernel's ring buffer output.
>
> I did as you said part of my dmesg output is:
>
> [ 31.644605] CPU: L1 I cache: 32K, L1 D cache: 32K
> [ 31.644606] CPU: L2 cache: 6144K
> [ 31.644607] CPU 1/1 -> Node 0

<snip>

> Now does this mean that the kernel uses the l2 cache, or that this is
> part of the message that the e8400 spews? I see no message in the entire
> dmesg output that the l2 output has been disabled or anything out of what
> I would expect...

Strictly speaking, it is a message from the kernel that it has found a
usable L2 cache the size of 6144 KB. And what it has found, it uses. ;-)

So in other words, the /lshw/ report was flawed and it may very well be a
bug in /lshw/ then. ;-)

--
*Aragorn*
(registered GNU/Linux user #223157)