On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 07:59:46 -0800 (PST), cc wrote:

> On Feb 28, 10:00Â*pm, bobbie <bobbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 28, 10:08 am, Hadron <hadronqu...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ray <r...@zianet.com> writes:
>>> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:26:27 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> >> ray <r...@zianet.com> writes:
>>
>>> >>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:10:55 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
>>
>>> >>>> Seems that nobody can get wireless networking up and running on Linux.
>>
>>> >>> That's strange, I've had zero problems with the Dlink WNA2330 (Atheros
>>> >>> based) wireless adapter on my laptop - Ubuntu and every other distro
>>> >>> I've tried sets it up quite easily.
>>
>>> >> Why would that be strange. "Nobody" here is clearly a majority rather
>>> >> than a blanket "nobody". Hint - not every one has a Dlink. And secondly
>>> >> most people Â*don't have a clue what a "chipset" is.
>>
>>> > OK dimwit - all it takes is a little (actually, very little) research to
>>> > find a wireless adapter that will work very easily with Linux. It is a
>>> > fact that not all of them do.
>>
>>> See other reply. A lot of laptops have wireless built in. People want
>>> Linux with their existing HW. COLA tells us it "works for me", But at
>>> least you are honest.
>>
>>> As for "dimwit", again : most people dont even know what a chipset or
>>> "wireless pci card" is. They just want it to work. The fact that hat
>>> your HW works is immaterial to Joe Soap who after being ensured in COLA
>>> that Linux works better than Windows trys to install Linux only to find
>>> "no network found".
>>
>> No problems here with my WiFi. Just seems to works for some strange
>> reason.
>>
>> Oh well.
>
> Yup. Looks like it's not a problem at all. All of those poor people
> with their wireless problems are obviously lying.

Heck, Lenovo even admits that Wireless does not work with their Linux
preloaded Thinkpad T61.

Can you image that?

Just picture the poor fool who buys one of these things, turns it on and is
met with a read me that says:

http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/Re...-of-Questions/

"After the initial boot and logon, we were faced with a clean,
well-organized desktop, but one element caught our eye right away—a text
document called ThinkPad Readme.txt. We launched it and found that the
document’s first line was “Limitations, Workarounds and How To’s for
SLED10.� We did not like the sound of that “limitations� element. After
all, isn’t Linux supposed to be about overcoming limitations?

The first part of the document covered “features not supported.� Some of
those features are:

* ThinkVantage Active Protection System.
* ThinkVantage Access Connections for SUSE Linux
* ThinkPad Configuration for SUSE Linux
* ThinkPad Power Manager for SUSE Linux
* Wireless WAN Adapter
* ThinkVantage Button
* (Intel Graphics System) DVI Output "

WTF?

That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.

Only in the Linux world is this acceptable, and from a top tier company
like Lenovo?

Come on already this is pathetic.

Cue Stage Left: The Linux advocates screaming "works for me"..

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 07:59:46 -0800 (PST), cc wrote:
>
>> On Feb 28, 10:00Â*pm, bobbie <bobbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Feb 28, 10:08 am, Hadron <hadronqu...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ray <r...@zianet.com> writes:
>>>> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:26:27 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>>>
>>>> >> ray <r...@zianet.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> >>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:10:55 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
>>>
>>>> >>>> Seems that nobody can get wireless networking up and running on Linux.
>>>
>>>> >>> That's strange, I've had zero problems with the Dlink WNA2330 (Atheros
>>>> >>> based) wireless adapter on my laptop - Ubuntu and every other distro
>>>> >>> I've tried sets it up quite easily.
>>>
>>>> >> Why would that be strange. "Nobody" here is clearly a majority rather
>>>> >> than a blanket "nobody". Hint - not every one has a Dlink. And secondly
>>>> >> most people Â*don't have a clue what a "chipset" is.
>>>
>>>> > OK dimwit - all it takes is a little (actually, very little) research to
>>>> > find a wireless adapter that will work very easily with Linux. It is a
>>>> > fact that not all of them do.
>>>
>>>> See other reply. A lot of laptops have wireless built in. People want
>>>> Linux with their existing HW. COLA tells us it "works for me", But at
>>>> least you are honest.
>>>
>>>> As for "dimwit", again : most people dont even know what a chipset or
>>>> "wireless pci card" is. They just want it to work. The fact that hat
>>>> your HW works is immaterial to Joe Soap who after being ensured in COLA
>>>> that Linux works better than Windows trys to install Linux only to find
>>>> "no network found".
>>>
>>> No problems here with my WiFi. Just seems to works for some strange
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> Oh well.
>>
>> Yup. Looks like it's not a problem at all. All of those poor people
>> with their wireless problems are obviously lying.
>
> Heck, Lenovo even admits that Wireless does not work with their Linux
> preloaded Thinkpad T61.
>
> Can you image that?
>
> Just picture the poor fool who buys one of these things, turns it on and is
> met with a read me that says:
>
> http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/Re...-of-Questions/
>
> "After the initial boot and logon, we were faced with a clean,
> well-organized desktop, but one element caught our eye right away—a text
> document called ThinkPad Readme.txt. We launched it and found that the
> document’s first line was “Limitations, Workarounds and How To’s for
> SLED10.� We did not like the sound of that “limitations� element. After
> all, isn’t Linux supposed to be about overcoming limitations?
>
> The first part of the document covered “features not supported.� Some of
> those features are:
>
> * ThinkVantage Active Protection System.
> * ThinkVantage Access Connections for SUSE Linux
> * ThinkPad Configuration for SUSE Linux
> * ThinkPad Power Manager for SUSE Linux
> * Wireless WAN Adapter
> * ThinkVantage Button
> * (Intel Graphics System) DVI Output "
>
> WTF?
>
> That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.
>
> Only in the Linux world is this acceptable, and from a top tier company
> like Lenovo?
>
> Come on already this is pathetic.
>
> Cue Stage Left: The Linux advocates screaming "works for me"..

No. No. Jerry has the "least compatible of all" and it works
"perfectly". Maybe he should call Lenovo? Maybe Peter could ask them
"what features do not work"?

Ridiculous.

The only way to solve issues is to accept that there are issues.

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:37:47 +0100, Hadron wrote:

> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 2 Mar 2008 07:59:46 -0800 (PST), cc wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 28, 10:00Â*pm, bobbie <bobbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Feb 28, 10:08 am, Hadron <hadronqu...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ray <r...@zianet.com> writes:
>>>>> > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:26:27 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> >> ray <r...@zianet.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> >>> On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:10:55 -0500, Troy Kirkland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Seems that nobody can get wireless networking up and running on Linux.
>>>>
>>>>> >>> That's strange, I've had zero problems with the Dlink WNA2330 (Atheros
>>>>> >>> based) wireless adapter on my laptop - Ubuntu and every other distro
>>>>> >>> I've tried sets it up quite easily.
>>>>
>>>>> >> Why would that be strange. "Nobody" here is clearly a majority rather
>>>>> >> than a blanket "nobody". Hint - not every one has a Dlink. And secondly
>>>>> >> most people Â*don't have a clue what a "chipset" is.
>>>>
>>>>> > OK dimwit - all it takes is a little (actually, very little) research to
>>>>> > find a wireless adapter that will work very easily with Linux. It is a
>>>>> > fact that not all of them do.
>>>>
>>>>> See other reply. A lot of laptops have wireless built in. People want
>>>>> Linux with their existing HW. COLA tells us it "works for me", But at
>>>>> least you are honest.
>>>>
>>>>> As for "dimwit", again : most people dont even know what a chipset or
>>>>> "wireless pci card" is. They just want it to work. The fact that hat
>>>>> your HW works is immaterial to Joe Soap who after being ensured in COLA
>>>>> that Linux works better than Windows trys to install Linux only to find
>>>>> "no network found".
>>>>
>>>> No problems here with my WiFi. Just seems to works for some strange
>>>> reason.
>>>>
>>>> Oh well.
>>>
>>> Yup. Looks like it's not a problem at all. All of those poor people
>>> with their wireless problems are obviously lying.
>>
>> Heck, Lenovo even admits that Wireless does not work with their Linux
>> preloaded Thinkpad T61.
>>
>> Can you image that?
>>
>> Just picture the poor fool who buys one of these things, turns it on and is
>> met with a read me that says:
>>
>> http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/Re...-of-Questions/
>>
>> "After the initial boot and logon, we were faced with a clean,
>> well-organized desktop, but one element caught our eye right away—a text
>> document called ThinkPad Readme.txt. We launched it and found that the
>> document’s first line was “Limitations, Workarounds and How To’s for
>> SLED10.� We did not like the sound of that “limitations� element. After
>> all, isn’t Linux supposed to be about overcoming limitations?
>>
>> The first part of the document covered “features not supported.� Some of
>> those features are:
>>
>> * ThinkVantage Active Protection System.
>> * ThinkVantage Access Connections for SUSE Linux
>> * ThinkPad Configuration for SUSE Linux
>> * ThinkPad Power Manager for SUSE Linux
>> * Wireless WAN Adapter
>> * ThinkVantage Button
>> * (Intel Graphics System) DVI Output "
>>
>> WTF?
>>
>> That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.
>>
>> Only in the Linux world is this acceptable, and from a top tier company
>> like Lenovo?
>>
>> Come on already this is pathetic.
>>
>> Cue Stage Left: The Linux advocates screaming "works for me"..
>
> No. No. Jerry has the "least compatible of all" and it works
> "perfectly". Maybe he should call Lenovo? Maybe Peter could ask them
> "what features do not work"?
>
> Ridiculous.
>
> The only way to solve issues is to accept that there are issues.

What a great idea!!

We can get Jerry Mcbirde to assist Lenovo in getting their wireless
networking functioning and we can have Peter Kohomann, *video expert*
assist Lenovo in getting the DVI outputs working.

How about it Jerry and Peter?

Are you guys up to the task?



--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

> WTF?
>
> That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.
>
> Only in the Linux world is this acceptable, and from a top tier company
> like Lenovo?
>
> Come on already this is pathetic.

I've had no problem with Wifi on an Ubuntu Linux box but I have had
problems on a Windows set up.

Geoff Lane

On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:44:09 +0000, Geoff Lane wrote:

> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> WTF?
>>
>> That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.
>>
>> Only in the Linux world is this acceptable, and from a top tier company
>> like Lenovo?
>>
>> Come on already this is pathetic.
>
> I've had no problem with Wifi on an Ubuntu Linux box but I have had
> problems on a Windows set up.
>
> Geoff Lane

Right on cue........


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

In article <11oljuht1h4kz$.1gpkdq24pypxp$.dlg@40tude.net>, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
> That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.

Not really. It's like buying a car and finding out that it has no radio.

How acceptable this is depends on one's needs and expectations. I consider
wireless networking to be a dirtbag, unreliable, unsecure technology
and do not use it. So for myself having inoperative wireless is just not
a factor, and in fact if it did work I would disable it. (I currently have
3 laptops. All run Linux. None have operational wireless.) For others the
lack of wireless support may well be a deal-breaker.

> Cue Stage Left: The Linux advocates screaming "works for me"..

I for one am not "advocating" anything but using the tool that fits
one's requirements. I don't need or want wireless, but if somebody else
does and decides that Windows is the best way to get get that feature,
it's no skin off my nose.

--
Roger Blake
(Subtract 10s for email.)

On 02 Mar 2008 22:37:16 GMT, Roger Blake wrote:

> In article <11oljuht1h4kz$.1gpkdq24pypxp$.dlg@40tude.net>, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>> That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.
>
> Not really. It's like buying a car and finding out that it has no radio.
>
> How acceptable this is depends on one's needs and expectations. I consider
> wireless networking to be a dirtbag, unreliable, unsecure technology
> and do not use it. So for myself having inoperative wireless is just not
> a factor, and in fact if it did work I would disable it. (I currently have
> 3 laptops. All run Linux. None have operational wireless.) For others the
> lack of wireless support may well be a deal-breaker.
>
>> Cue Stage Left: The Linux advocates screaming "works for me"..
>
> I for one am not "advocating" anything but using the tool that fits
> one's requirements. I don't need or want wireless, but if somebody else
> does and decides that Windows is the best way to get get that feature,
> it's no skin off my nose.

My points are conceptual and real world.
It doesn't really matter what the features are or are not, it's more a
matter of why on earth did Lenovo let this Linux loaded boat anchor loose
and what are people, normal average people, going to think when they read
that laundry list of items they paid for that don't work with Linux?

They are going to be pissed off that's what is going to happen.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

In article <6gxe4ufgayw1.1ofom31qx7zkk.dlg@40tude.net>, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
> It doesn't really matter what the features are or are not, it's more a
> matter of why on earth did Lenovo let this Linux loaded boat anchor loose

You would obviously have to ask Lenovo. Since there are wireless chipsets
available that do work well with Linux, one does have to wonder what the
Lenovo people were smoking when they put together that particular package.

--
Roger Blake
(Subtract 10s for email.)

On 03 Mar 2008 00:09:35 GMT, Roger Blake wrote:

> In article <6gxe4ufgayw1.1ofom31qx7zkk.dlg@40tude.net>, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>> It doesn't really matter what the features are or are not, it's more a
>> matter of why on earth did Lenovo let this Linux loaded boat anchor loose
>
> You would obviously have to ask Lenovo. Since there are wireless chipsets
> available that do work well with Linux, one does have to wonder what the
> Lenovo people were smoking when they put together that particular package.

Absolutely!
And that is my point.

For the record my Thinkpad T42 works fine with PClinuxOS

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Geoff Lane <datemasde.t1m@gishpuppy.com> writes:

> Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>
>> WTF?
>>
>> That's like buying a car and finding out that it has no motor.
>>
>> Only in the Linux world is this acceptable, and from a top tier company
>> like Lenovo?
>>
>> Come on already this is pathetic.
>
> I've had no problem with Wifi on an Ubuntu Linux box but I have had
> problems on a Windows set up.
>
> Geoff Lane
>

Super. So that clears that one up. Geoff and Robbie had no
issues. Therefore all the issues do not exist.

Sigh.

See me post recently about a COLA maintenance project.

"Works for me".